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See what other Tripod members said about investing in Apple Computer.And see how members responded to the last survey about Gratification and Personal Success.
For past survey results, check our survey archive.
ResidentEvil: Yes, all these shortcoming at Apple have left a bad taste in the mouths of many -- but not mine. A company the size of Apple which has virtually no debt, and which continues to fill the market with viable and technologically superior products will continue to get my support. As I write this now, I am on a Mac IIfx running Netscape 3.0 beta 5....and I love it!DillWeed: Nobody asked you if you love your computer, ResEvil -- the question is whether Apple is a good investment right now. Clearly they are not. They have no portables on the market, they continue to cut jobs, their market share is dropping, and sales are falling fast because the word on the street is that Apple is finished. "Rolling Stone" recently ran a two-parter on "The Death of Apple." Wake up and face the facts! If and when Apple gets Copland/System 8 on the market, it will NOT run on your old IIfx (you must have a PowerPC RISC chip on your motherboard despite all those "ready for PowerMac upgrade" claims on machines sold over the last few years) -- and Apple has now announced that System 8 will require 22 MB of RAM to run well. This is the "more efficient native-RISC code system" Apple said would blow away Windows 95?! Give me a break. Stick a fork in their ass and flip 'em over -- they're nearly done.
LukasBradley: Absolutely not.
Back in the middle 80s, my family was able to buy a computer. We finally decided on an Apple IIGS. We were one of the first people to buy one, and it was personally signed by Wozniak. Besides being one of the most useless machines around, Apple discontinued the Apple II line shortly after the IIGS release. So we were stuck.
I could go on and spew a little of the Apple vs PC in graphics, but I think "dwindling market share" sums it up.Damiano: Actually, Apple Computer's balance sheet is starting to look much better. Their stock just jumped up about 25 percent a few days ago after the quarter's losses turned out to be negligable (rather than the extreme predicted by many stock market analysts). Restructuring, layoffs, and the tightening of production processes have helped bring their short-term investment and cash-eqivs up to $1.36 billion -- which is quite good (especially compared to last quarter's $270 million). To me this looks a lot like what IBM was going through recently, and seems to be working.
rjnerd: Yes, but because I want to see the successor to my Newton. If Apple goes, I will be back to things like the Sharp.
98spc_2: Apple is a good investment for the long term, like just about any large company. If you are investing in stocks for the long- term, Apple is a fine one to go for. They're not going to fold: even if the financial wizards at "Rolling Stone" say they are. Nice place to get investing advice, DillWeed...
ResidentEvil: First, if you don't like a product, you sure won't buy it, let alone invest in it. If you are just there to make a buck, then that's fine. But because of my "love" of the product that Apple creates, then yes, I would invest. Just think of the things you have because of Apple...hmm, the next time you watch a movie, the TV, or surf the net, think to youself...someone must have invested in Apple, or else I couldn't be doing what I am now.
DillWeed: You couldn't watch TV without Apple? Man, you really need to cut down on reading the hype from Cupertino!!
jmd: Nothing I like better than a snipy, puerile snitfest over who's got the better hardware, and yet, here I am, chipping in my two cents.
Of course you invest now. Duh. Someone's gonna end up buying it. Probably someone named Bill, who with an army of incompetent programmers and 11 years time, could only develop Win 95. Buy low, sell high, leave your heart at home when you got to market.
Sheesh. And to think I was an English major.
booo: You go DillWeed! I just wanted to give you props on your first comment to ResEvil...about him being in love with his Apple...and so on and so on. It had me rollin'.
paboola: Apple is an innovative company that has, perhaps, blundered most in trying to be all things (OS and hardware) to all people. Scaling back is a good thing -- and this is a great time to buy Apple stock. The demise of Apple has been overplayed in the media because the company was golden for so long. Face it, lots and lots of companies have had bad quarters lately (do you hear anyone claiming Xerox or HP is going under?). To count Apple out at this point is nonsense. To be blindly loyal to the Microsoft juggernaut is incomprehensible. To overlook an opportunity to buy into Apple at an attractive price is poor business sense.
SharonB: I've used Apple products for going on 14 years -- going back to the Apple IIE. While I've been annoyed by the fact that they have a tendancy to turn out new machines which are incompatible to previous machines, I remain loyal. Yes, I'd invest (if I hadn't just bought a new Powerbook).
MANUELC: I definitely would invest in Apple, and the main reason is the Internet. The greatest obstacle Apple computers and their related software had to deal with over the last few years is incompatibility with the PC; that's why not many people think of an Apple at the moment they buy a computer. But the Internet is changing that trend, since a person can buy a Mac and enjoy the internet just like a PC owner -- more easily, even. Furthermore, because of the Apple's superiority over the PC in desktop publishing and related fields, a lot of the Web is being created on Macs -- and that trend seems to grow more and more each day.
jimpt: No. Loyal Customers can only go so far, and this is a sinking ship in which customers are desperately trying to bail water. A small market share only seals the Mac's fate.
JillSawdon: Absolutely yes. "The Media" loves a disaster story, and Apple has given them some fodder in the last couple of years -- but the turnaround is based on some real initiatives that are sound, simple and should work if smart folks who don't like being ruled by Microsoft aren't swayed by the naysayers (see Dave Pogue's article in the July issue of MacWorld).
MDARNTON: I'd invest in Apple. Die-hard Mac user or not, it's better than fattening Bill Gates' coffers even more.
Smilly: Never! I dislike Apple computers. I was trained on a a PC and that's where I'm gonna stay! Why in invest in an unsupported OS? PC's are much easier to upgrade and repair, also!
BDS: Considering all the changes that have been going down at said corporation -- such as the stock going up 4 points, the upcoming arrival of Copland (System 8) and the PPCP boxes (which have been demonstrated flawlessly running MacOS, Unix, and Windows 95 on the same RISC/PowerMac machine) you'd have to be dumb not to invest in Apple.
DillWeed: Yeah, but Macs are already overpriced compared to PCs, and System 8's announced need for 22 MB of RAM and a second or third generation PowerPC chip just to run is going to put a lot of this new crap further out of the reach of the average consumer -- and leave a lot of Apple's installed customer base out of the loop, high and dry, unable to take advantage of new enhancements. Apple has already lost significant ground in the education market. Is the company going to be able to lose the home and school markets and survive by selling upscale machines to elitist niches like desktop publishing? Doubtful! What compelling reason is there for software developers to continue to dork around with a platform that appeals to such limited markets? Bail out now! You have been warned!
christabel: Yes, Yes, and again Yes -- I would invest. That is because I only go for quality, innovation and elegance -- exactly what Apple stands for!
formicacid: Apple and Windows are like fine art and kitsch; both need each other. Fine art (Apple) will always be less popular than kistch (Windows), but kitsch always races to catch up with fine art. One needs the other to survive.
Wait a month or two, 'til the stock goes just a bit lower, then invest. Fine art is always worth the cost.
compuco: No, I would not, for the simple fact that a small rebound is not enough to turn a computer company (that was once the oneto beat) around. Considering that the boys (and girls) at Gates Hill are dumping their entire resources and efforts into the PC arena, they can dictate a lot about what the market feels. It's just like the VHS and the BETA -- it goes back to marketing -- why go with a product that consumers (rightly or wrongly) see as a LOSER. Unfortunately, that is the way of the world!
kahana: Yes! I think that the new president is preparing Apple for a merger/acquisition. A few months ago, Sun seemed to be interested, but the deal did not come through. With Apple's financial situation improving, it may happen within a year.
sanform: I would definitely invest in Apple right now. The company has a long history of its stock price wavering. So much, in fact, that most Apple fans don't even worry about it anymore. They know their company will be back no matter what, and so do I.
BarryS: Hell yes -- I'll invest! Sure, the numbers are down -- but buying low is good investing. Apple plays to a small audience, but you won't find a more loyal crowd outside of a Grateful Dead fan club. You say the new software won't run on the old hardware and I say I have an old 486 PC that makes a great planter.
Yes, I may only be an elitist desktop publishing designer, but I've been watching PCs evolve into Apples for well over a decade now -- and I don't miss that knuckle-dragging DOS prompt a bit. Seeing that happen makes it easy for me to believe in one of the most brilliant and innovative companies the business world has ever known -- all the other industry wannabes are still drooling after all these years. Apple has the know-how, so just give them time.
To each his own in this crazy world -- some folks drive BMWs, some drive Neons. Invest in quality and longevity -- Apple has both to spare. I mean, hey...Rolling Stone Magazine ain't what it used to be either, but some people still read it.earache: Howdy Spacefans! Knowing that good ideas mean $$$$$ is my philosphy of why Apple is always a good investment. Their computers are smart and easy and their sort 'o' thinking is being replicated by other (nameless and mediocre) companies -- whether they get bought out or whatever will have no impact on the legacy they've created -- making computers easier for everyone. Their willingness to be creative in their design of computers and computer interfaces will always be an asset to them and to us all.
cpuccio: Apple seems to have carved a strong niche from a group of very loyal users. I think Apple will recover from their recent problems and continue to grow. In my opinion, Apple stock is an excellent buy if you're willing to wait it out. I just purchased some Apple stock during the market's recent drop and bought it close to it's recent low. They are a solid company that will prove a winner in the long run. And this is from an IBM-compatible PC user!
rich_deming: Investing is a matter of determining worth. Is Apple valued fairly? If valued low, buy -- if high, sell. Only in that way could someone make a legitimate decision to purchase Apple shares. However, if the question is long-term investment in Apple, my opinion is "not a chance." Forget the sales numbers, or how great the operating system is, or anything else. Just examine how many software titles are available for Apple versus in the past (either in total or in relationship to DOS/Windows). I was even shocked to see how few titles are available at the local COMP-USA compared to a year ago. This trend will start to snowball on Mac users as more software publishers see a diminishing return for their investment of both programming resources and time/money.
By the way, hopefully you saw Apple's two-page ad in major papers with quotes from industry leaders on how important Apple was to their business plans. Please! That is like a public "vote of confidence" from the baseball club owner to the manager. Six days later he is gone.artamerica: I would definitely invest in Apple. I would also refrain from swallowing hook, line, and sinker everything I read in the newspapers -- for instance this outrageous claim that System 8 will require 22 megs ram. It's 22-25 MB HARD DISK SPACE, you ninnies.
This report is based on what a reporter got out of someone's memory of an internal broadcast-- not firsthand, not from a technical document, not even from a press release. Credibility zero. Just another example of Apple being beaten to death by the media.
System 8 will require 8 Megs, that's it. That will hold enough code to run apps. Remember that all the code is running on demand-paged virtual memory. If the code won't fit, it gets dumped, and when it's needed it gets sucked back in. No more giant System heap.DillWeed: Hey, Artamerica! Here's a chunk cut word for word from a recent story in the San Jose Mercury news -- complete with a response from Apple chief Gil Amelio. Who's a ninny now, dumb-ass?
"A big concern is heavy memory demand by the new ''Copland'' operating system software, also known as Macintosh System 8. It now appears that Copland, due in the first half of next year, will require 22 to 24 megabytes of random-access memory, or RAM. The current Macintosh System 7.5 requires 8 to 16 megabytes.
Amelio, responding to an employee's question, said the higher RAM requirement shouldn't be a big problem because most PCs next year -- from Apple as well as its competitors -- will come with 32 megabytes, up from the 16 megabytes standard on most machines today."
spleen: I would invest in Apple with no problem. They aren't going anywhere. Until the major publishing companies (like Prentice Hall) stop using Macintoshes, Apple will have a solid support base for years. The Apple technology is superior to most Microsoft products (most of which can be run on a Mac using SoftWindows95 or SoftWindows 3.0). As for claims that Macs cost more, quality products always cost more than the lesser products.
TroyP: I am investing in Apple, and I will tell you why. It is a solid, if not consistent, high-tech company, with annual sales of over a BILLION dollars -- and while they have lost money of late, they still have the superior product that happens to engender customer loyalty that any other company would die for. Although the doomsayers report that the company is dying, they have been saying that since the Apple ][ and it is still here. Apple WILL survive, and I believe it will flourish once again. And, Macintosh rules!!!
dwm: Yes, I would Invest in Apple Computer Company.
Sign me up for 1000 shares.
- They are presently undervalued. Break-up value is much more than there current price.
- They have market share. (#1 last year)
- They have a weird sort of mind share. I am a Mac advocate/devotee/customer for ten years now. Have been using them for 12 years. They will still be around for the next ten.
- Gil Amelio is a business man. He will either make Apple profitable, or he will sell it off to the highest bidder. He is working for the board -- he won't screw the board. He may radically change apple, but he won't lose much more "real" value for the company, and he will probably also improve their "perceived" value -- their stock price as well.
artamerica: Yeah, DillWeed, I saw that article and it's the same one I am refering to in my previous post where I said you shouldn't believe everything you read in the papers. Newspapers are notorious for misquoting people, especially when the actual quote doesn't jibe with the reporter's bias or the story he's been told to write. BTW, regarding the "Apple can't survive with such a small marketshare" argument: Saab, Mercedes, Infiniti, Volvo, Lexus, and BMW have less than 1% of the world car market each. Even the big guns, like Mitsubishi and Chrysler, have less than 2% of the market apiece. Does this mean these companies won't survive? Hardly. They are prospering companies who would kill for Apple's 9% market share. So would almost any individual PC clone maker.
DillWeed: True -- but individual clone makers don't have to convince software developers to support their own individual, non-compatible operating systems. BMW and the other luxury car makers don't run on some strange, exotic fuel that can't be used to power a Yugo. The smaller market share is seriously impacting the amount of available software for Macs -- and that will eventually drive Apple into bankruptcy or into being bought out by a bigger company to market as a novelty niche product.
artamerica: Further on the accuracy of this Mercury News article. In your word for word chunk, the Mercury News reports that the current Mac OS, 7.5 requires 8-16 MB of RAM. I've been using 7.5 for over a year now, and it has always used right around 3.5 MB of RAM. Now, if they can't get an easily checkable fact like that correct, what makes you believe they can predict the future?
randyman: I don't wish to get drawn into a war of attrition here, but with all due respect to Artamerica (and I say this as a long-time Mac user), the San Jose Mercury News is one of the most respected papers in the country for covering Silicon Valley and tech stories. I hardly think that they would risk their reputation by willfully misquoting the CEO of Apple on their front page. You are revealing your OWN bias by suggesting such a thing. Further, you are conveniently overlooking a truth about RAM and OS requirements -- to truly "run the computer," you have to have enough memory for more than just the OS. True, you can run 7.5 on just slightly less than 4 MB of RAM -- but if you add a few extensions or try to open any programs whatsoever, you are out of luck unless you have at least 8 MB of RAM. A computer is virtually useless with nothing more than an operating system running. That's why Apple doesn't recommend 7.5.x for anyone without a MINIMUM of 8 MB -- and anyone using even remotely memory intensive applications could easily need 16MB (or, at the very least, a workaround like Ram Doubler). It may seem hard to believe now, but Apple was routinely shipping computers with 4 MB of RAM and System 7 as recently as two or three years ago. If Amelio says we will need 22-24 MB of RAM and concedes that Macs will have to be shipping with 32 MB of memory in the very near future, I'm inclined to believe him. The CEO of Apple is, after all, in a better position to know about System 8 than you or I.
CapnDick: As a computer/video specialist, I come into contact with pretty much every application/hardware/software combination out there on both Mac and IBM (and clones) as well as Amiga, SGI, etc. Although some businesses have spoken in support of Mac, I have been amazed by what, in my opinion, is a large number of techies at companies that have been using Mac platforms being frustrated by not only the present OS, but the proposed new platforms. Some techies have even spoken of the possibility of not continuing to use Mac platforms because of file problems they have experienced on a regular basis with large video clips. So, I would have to say the prospects are not to good and actually invested my $8,000 in an HP Vectra and some goodies.
davidbaker: I would definately invest in Apple. Now would be a great time. There is great doubt so their stock is down, but the new CEO has already started to make Apple the high profile company it once was. Clones, Copland, and a streamlined product line will bring the shine back to Apple.
pawlo: I think Apple has suffered too much from not licensing the Mac OS to public investors and developers years ago when they had the chance. Now it's too late to regain market shares. Maybe you could earn some money in specualtion, such as you could from Netscape shares (they will fall soon). The really good long-term share investment, though, would be in Microsoft or Intel.
BrotherDavid: Apple computer continues to produce innovative and market leading technologies. Many of their problems are no greater than those faced by other computer manufacturers, but because they are "Apple" computer, many analysts feel that they just can't go up against the Intel/Microsoft giant.
I would most definitely invest in Apple, especially at this time, for the very reason that their stocks are down. The new CEO, Amelio, is a genius when it comes to saving troubled companies. Apple has the products for today and tomorrow and Amelio is providing the necessary leadership. While investing in Apple would have to be considered risky, it would be a "wise" risk. They will come out of this phase, stronger, wiser, and more innovative than ever before. And those who stand by them will come out "richer".CashU: No. I'm sorry, but Apple had their chance when they inundated the schools with their products, and neither the children nor the adults bought into the plan. It would take a miracle to catch up to the competition at this point. I think I would rather put my money in something more exciting, like a Volkwagen Beetle.
cprins: Apple remains a multi-billion dollar company who's OS has a stranglehold on lucrative niche industries: DTP, Web Development, and many others. With the largest user base of any computer manufacturer, Apple is not going to disappear anytime soon!
Sensate: Yes, I would invest in Apple, whether it remains an independent computer company or is merged/acquired/splintered, etc. -- though the return would be far better in the latter case. In support of the former, even with its idiotic pricing policies of the past (charging 30-50% more for its products than for equivalent PC hardware), it has still managed to attract informed customers. The business end of Apple has long been monumentally stupid, but even with this handicap Apple hasn't managed to kill itself. The products are just too strong. The programmers at Apple are the best; with a tiny fraction of the resources of Microsoft (and the 3rd-party vendors to boot), they have been leading the field with innovations since the beginning. Of late, Microsoft's products have been inexcusably bad. There is just no possible justification for fatal bugs in an operating system 5 years in the making (and nearly a year late, at that). The Apple programmers alone are worth more than the company's market value. It IS worth selling products to even a tiny minority of computer users.
hsauter: Not in this millineum. Many more viable investment opportunities are available
Chet: No. All it takes is a trip to Best Buy or Circuit City to see eight aisles of IBM compatitable software and only one aisle of Mac software.
Jimsan: Invest in Apple? Sure, why not? The first rule of investments is "Buy low. Sell High." Apple is redefining its market. Its lower than expected 3rd quarter loss ($32 million versus an expected $130) and stable revenues have analysts working overtime to revise their estimates. With multi-million dollar systems sales to Dupont, HBO, Lockheed, and TRW, the company could be profitable by next spring. In the last 2 weeks, Apple stock has increased 37%. It's something to look into.
grok: It's dead and has been for a long time now. Anyone still buying 8-track tapes? How about Beta VCR's? Who has bought a steam car lately? Know many people that are making buggy whips?
Times change and some technology loses...smell the roses and invest in flowers!
cbrady: Just thought I'd toss my two cents in. In my capacity as a retail salesperson, I have noticed a slight increase in the number of packages available for the Mac. Most of this increase is due to more and more "hybrids" (versions for both Mac and WIN/95 on the same CD) coming out . We found that our Mac section was lower than was appropriate because we were stocking all of the hybrids in the Windows section. Once we moved them to the Mac section, you'd be surprised how much is available retail.
That point aside, I personally would not invest in Apple at this point because I feel as if their company is in a continuing downward spiral. While losses weren't huge, they were losses nonetheless. Amelio seems to know what he's doing with them, but I think it's a matter of too little too late. Personal opinion coming...At what point does a OS vendor (MS or APPLE) say "To hell with old/legacy devices and systems" and make an OS that does the job 100%. Neither 95 or System 7.5.3 (or the upcoming System 8) had the courage to do that.
SSebeny: Yes. I would invest in Apple. "No Further comment."
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