11/19-11/25: And the Winner is...On Fire!

Self-immolation protests aside, it looks like the Miss World pageant will go ahead this weekend in India. She-Devil parades, suicide and a promise to torch the stadium have not deterred the event's organizers. Two billion viewers will not be disappointed when they tune in Saturday night.

Did the protestors choose the wrong methods, or did they pick the wrong target? The secretary-general of the Indian Health Organization has accused these women and men of hogging media attention and ignoring more pressing issues closer to home (such as the thousands of girls sold into prostitution each year in India).

Is Miss World worth protesting? Is it a vulgar display of beauty or harmless fun? And the real question -- will you be watching on Saturday night?

Here's what Tripod members had to say:

evince: I think it is very brave and noble of the people of India to protest the Miss World Pageant. Aside from my personal views of the Pageant (I would rather have root canal than watch it) it seems that the folks who are protesting hit the nail on the head. The event is demeaning to women in general, it seems inappropriate to the relatively tradional culture in India (for better or worse), and the pageant doesnt seem to make any significant contribution to the myriad of problems facing the nation (i.e. violent political struggles, overpopulation, rapidly growing AIDS population). The irony of self-immolation as protest, given the large number of "dowery deaths" in India, should not be lost on the event planners. It's a powerful step.

But no, I will not be watching. I won't be protesting either, root canals notwithstanding. The age of the "future world leader in a one-piece and high heels" should have been years behind us by now. Besides, the pageant is SO CHEEZY!

Miss Costa Rica, Natalia Caravjal Lorenzo, an aspiring journalist said, "This is the land of Gandhi, the land of peace. How can they take such an extreme step. Everybody has a right to protest but not in this form. I am very concerned."

See what I mean.

Ajoy: I think that these protesters are idle people with a dearth of grey matter, who have nothing better to do with their time. Being an Indian, I know that India, with a population of more than 850 million, has truck-loads of such people.

I have my opinion about these beauty contests, and I think they are DEFINITELY not worth all this time and attention that the protesters are showering on them, giving them free publicity (as if they needed it).

gharwell: Who cares. It's just a bunch of good looking women getting together to see who is the cutest. Would they be protesting if the contest were for the fattest, ugliest, sweathog in town? Maybe the good-looking women would protest. Everybody always has to be angry when SOMEBODY ELSE is having a good time.

Spiffy_the_Death_Cat: I can't understand why people are so strongly opposed to this. I've never watched a pageant in my life, nor do I plan to, but it seems that the people of India are overreacting. Most people I know have about as much interest in a beauty pageant as a documetary on snail migration. Is it really worth people setting themselves on fire and killing themselves? This only draws more attention to the Miss World competition, which thrives on publicity. If people would just ignore it, it would have no impact. On a final note, it is incredibly sad that people are willing to kill themselves over a pageant while they simply accept that their children are being sold into prostitution. It's not just sad, it's sick.

Thorin: Miss World, Miss America, Miss Universe, what do they all have in common? They are women who come and go with the years. We look at them, say "Wow, they're gorgeous" or, more likely if we watch, "WHAT? Why her!? Miss (insert name) was MUCH better!"

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. And, just because a panel of judges says "so-and-so" is the most beautiful, we all know that will change next year. The pageants serve no important purpose, change nobody's ways of life except on a small scale, and are pretty much just a bit of fluff. But who says everything done in the world today has to "shake the earth" and "be meaningful"? Don't we also need to just sit back and enjoy ourselves every once in a while?

Finally, I've said this many times: Who twisted these women's arms and forced them to enter the pageant? NOBODY! If they want to go and be stared at and ogled, and they don't care THEN WHY SHOULD WE? I say mind our own business, unless someone ASKS for help or input. I mean, if all or even some of the women were complaining that they were in the pageant against their will, or not happy with what they were doing, why I'd be among the first to go rescue them. But the truth is: They are not, and so we should not go "rescuing" people who neither want nor need it.

Tameco: I do not believe that the pageant is worth protesting. I would like to believe that it is all harmless fun. As for me, I will not be watching it Saturday night. I really don't understand why the people of India are so strongly opposed. I believe that they are overreacting. I agree with the Indian Health Organization about more pressing issues closer to home. This seems so petty!!!! And I hope the pageant goes off without any problems.

grok: Sure seems to ME like a case of misplaced priorities. Of course, if the rest of the protesters felt as strongly as the person that torched himself, THEN their willingness to put up and shut up would get real press. Otherwise it's an idiot that proves Darwin was right....

As for pageants, I've got better things to do -- like tell everyone my opinion on this page. If it's a choice between Lucy reruns and the pageant, perhaps I'll watch, but I've got cable and can watch fishing shows instead. A harmless waste of time, but it makes some people happy -- why worry about it over REAL problems?

formicacid: Thorin -- "I say mind our own business, unless someone ASKS for help or input." -- Problem with this form of thought occurs when people who are repressed are led to believe that they should be repressed. Example: let us suppose that everyone in the world believed that women were inherently lesser beings than men. Let us suppose that this was the accepted norm. Then women would not feel bad about being lesser because they would have been brought up to believe that this is the way it should be. Would it be all right for us to say that, because everyone feels alright, society is alright? What if some women come along who feel they are repressed?

Compare this to women who are brought up to believe that they must aspire to a certain form of beauty, and who believe that it is perfectly normal for them to do anything to reach this goal. This is a somewhat common occurence in our world, and I know people who are dying because of anorexia/bolemia. Is it right for me to not interfere because they feel they are doing the right thing, or would it be better for me to try and open their eyes to a bigger picture?

Additionally, just because the method people use to protest something is faulty, that they are protesting is not necessarily wrong. Don't confuse the method these people are using with the message they are trying to convey.

On a final note, I will not be watching the contest. If I want to look at a beautiful woman, I'll stare at my girlfriend for a bit.

RadaH: Well, my co-worker and I (both women) are reading the various comments about the Miss World Pageant, and find it outrageous that women all over the world are still only being primarily recognized for their "tits and ass" as opposed to their intellectual assets.

JANAKI: Being an Indian ....I was only worried about the money they spend on these kind of shows. We have a large number of other issues to spend money for.

Recently court gave an order to get all the money including security to the show people from ABCl ( Coordinators ). Still, what is an Indian is going to get out of this? It's a waste of time. I 've a lot of other things to do and not going to watch this show.

Nothing is going to happen for the culture and this is not the right way to protest (though there is no other way to do it, that's the way it works in India, no one listens if you don't show the extremes).

Soggy: I am an Indian and am aware of the issues here. The protesters are basically a politically motivated bunch of people. What better way to hog media attention and collect "votes" then protesting such an event ?? What I don't understand is why don't these organisations or individuals protest against the gang-rapes, dowry burnings, female infanticide etc. which are far, far more burning issues in India and require media and public attention more than a harmless beauty pageant whcih is going to make the world notice the bright and positive side of India and its culture through its various shows.

Anukool: It's a sheer waste of manpower, time and energy to protest on a mundane issue like Miss World. I feel that this is more an entertainment than a parade of flesh. I will definitely watch the show. After all when can you get to see so many beautiful and intelligent women? Personaly speaking if I didn't like it I wouldn't be a part of it, but I would definitely not be a hindrance to the show.

cregan1: I don't thing that it is brave on the part of the people of India to protest the invasion of female cosmetic objectification: It is common sense.

DMacDonald: While I disagree with their approach, I can't say that those actively protesting this pageant are wrong. The persistence of beauty pageants is further evidence of the persistence of ideals/myths of womanly beauty that are just not healthy or realistic. Other respondents have covered this. Young girls are killing themselves trying to look like Miss World, Miss Universe, whatever. It doesn't do much for men either, except further the idea that women are mute statuettes vying for their approval. It undermines their ability to know, appreciate, and yes enjoy us fully.

As these huge televised pageants are heavily underwritten by advertisers drooling at the thought of millions and millions of viewers, perhaps the most effective means of protesting against them is turning off our televisions. Extreme approaches to protest only draw more attention to these disgusting spectacles. I would not have known the pageant was coming up if not for media coverage of the protestors.

If I haven't already said so, I won't be watching it.

jmd: Woo Formicacid! You've got it, as does Soggy. In a caste-system country where, except for the ruling class, women are regarded as financial liabilities; where there are regular abortions of female fetuses performed (thus the booming ultrasound industry); and where the fairer skinned women are considered the only standard for beauty (at least according to the Indian "women's" mags my old housemate reads); there are perhaps more important things to protest. But how many of us would be aware of any of it if there weren't a Miss World pageant being held in the country, and if world media didn't place a focus on it.

As for Miss World, ecch. I modeled both as a teen and as an adult, and while one could argue the existence or level of exploitation involved, the Miss World event is just sheer exploitation. grok, I'd much rather watch Lucy reruns. At least the women speak, and not just when they're spoken to.

Thorin: Okay, maybe the attitude of Hands Off unless asked is too extreme, but then so is what's going on in India. Sure, there are always going to be times when it is necessary to step in, but the women in the pageant are not to blame. I still say if they want to do it, then let them.

Also, there was another comment earlier about how women are only recognized for their physical attributes. This is just a half-baked idea, but see what you think:

"Women with brains wind up in the workplace. Women with no brains and good looks wind up being employed just for looks. Women with brains AND looks wind up wherever the heck they want to."

Sure it's easier for a good-looking woman to get a job, because the first impression is usually a visual one. This is why many businesses conduct the first two or three interviews over the phone. It helps present everyone more equally. Besides, I was really mad one time when, as a father of 2 children, I lost a clerical job to a big-breasted "bit of fluff" who couldn't even pass the filing exam given before we were hired. Clearly a case of looks over content, I would say. However, since I have the smarts, I just decided that a company like that is not worth my time, and went on to a much nicer job. :)

rajeshr: Now that it's over, we can say that barking dogs don't bite. Protestors not withstanding, the event was a success. It has also shown up the BJP for what it is, a double talking, desperate party trying to hog the limelight and failing miserably. If Michael Jackson is an epitome of Indian Culture as witnessed at Mumbai, then what is Indian Culture? Middle Class Indians wake up. BJP is no different from other parties and are two times more evil.

Eldridge: Beauty pageants are certainly an important part of American popular culture, but are they an important part of the Indian lifestyle as well? Who cares! The important thing here is that some guy has already burned himself to death in protest of the pageant -- now that's entertainment!! Nothing gets the attention of today's black-hearted youth more than a nasty, ugly, unnecessary suicide. Just take a look a the Rage Against the Machine record for proof. You think those clowns really care about Third World rights? Hell no -- they're just out to make a little cash -- and what's wrong with that? So what's my point? Actually, I'm not really sure. But I do know one thing -- the guy who so nobly burned himself in "protest" just made a hell of a lot of money for the pageant. What wholesome, American advertiser isn't interested now?

Ngupta: Interesting that jmd knows sooo much about Indian culture. I bet she doesn't know that in marriges, vows are taken by the husband to the wife and NOT vice-versa. I bet she also doesn't know that any and I mean ANY holy ceremony not done in the presence of a woman is deemed invalid. Let's not talk about the caste system because it is those women with a voice that are protesting, not the "financial liabilities" that she refers to them as. Perhaps, before making such an "opinionated" remark served to offend me and many other people actually from India and generalize all Indians as subscribing to the caste system, she should visit the country and actually see what it is like. I agree that the situation in India is sad in which women are not treated with the respect they deserve, but the situation with the Pageant is being created by so called "liberated" women and men. Let's not forget that it is only in this century that women were allowed to vote in the USA.

jmd: Ngupta -- my acquaintance with Indian culture is not based on personal visits to the country, this is true. Rather, it was based on living for years with a woman who is a native of Bombay, and is a member of the ruling caste. I learned also by reading the Indian publications she brought into our house, from talking with her about why she chose to live in the US, from long discussions with her family members and from her own explanations of the caste system, and of arranged marriages; by reading the "India News," and by reading publications that, although American in origin, focused on the status of women worldwide, and mostly the ones without voices.

Aren't the immolations and murders recorded by the World Health Organization, by Indian writers and reporters, as well as by Americans, as real as the reports of thousands of women who suffer beatings in the states? Because one's own culture is essentially sexist and exploitive doesn't necessarily make them unable to observe similar patters in other countries. There's plenty wrong in the States with the status of women, as you so clearly pointed out. I'd be the first to give you a detailed laundry list. But that wasn't the question.